Does God Exist? Frank Turek vs. Dennis Normark

By: Curtis Ophoven 0 Comments   3/27/2014

One of the best debates I have even seen.  Frank Turek (Christian) takes on Dennis Normark (Non-Theist) who claims he is a non-theist rather than an atheist, yet at one point in the debate Dennis calls himself an atheist.

Frank was in for a challenge as the moderator was also an Atheists. 

From the very beginning he was clearly skeptical, yet he did a pretty good job giving each of them the same time and questions.  

Later in the debate we found out why Dennis makes this distinction that he is a Non-Theist rather than an Atheist.  It seems that Dennis avoids the label of Atheist in order to avoid being grouped with the Atheists leaders that have killed 100 million in the last century, namely Mao, Paul Pot and Stalin. 

Dennis claims that the reason these guys got it wrong was because they took on religious ideas to gain power.  So these devoid Atheists leaders’ who killed millions of people did it because they were corrupted by religion.  In this way, Dennis can suggest that religion is the real enemy of man and if the world would just rid itself of all religion than we would be able to have world peace.

In his opening statement, Frank pointed out that God is the most logical and reasonable cause of all the modern scientific and historical evidence we have.  The real world reveals a real God.

Dennis had no evidence to the contrary, but argued that god is not real but only something in our minds that we imagine in order to answer the questions that we cannot otherwise answer, pointing out that our minds are very creative and capable of imagining radical things. Therefore we should not trust what we imagine in our minds to be true.

Dennis’s main points seems to be:

  1. God is imagined in our minds
  2. Morality can be determined by the common sense of the majority

Frank went on to reveal the logical fallacy in each of these. 

First, if God is imagined in our minds and we cannot trust what we think, then how can we trust anything that we think?  If our minds cannot be trusted, then how can an Atheists trust their minds when they imagine there is no God?  The only way we can trust anything is by evaluating the evidence in the world – and that evidence points to God.  Also, if we live in just a material world, a world without spirituality, than we do not have a soul or a mind that is separate from our physical brains, so we have no reason not to trust whatever our brain cells tell us because it is all we have to go on and has been trusted to get us this far.

To assume we have a free will to make decisions about what is true is to assume we are more than just molecules in motion, that we have a mind or a soul that is separate.  But this is part of the theist worldview, that we have a mind or soul that is separate from our brains.  Therefore, it takes a theist worldview to argue that God is just something we have imagined.  When Frank pointed this out, the Atheist moderator saved Dennis from having to respond.

Second, if morality can be determined by the common sense of the majority than why has the majority never in history been able to make good moral judgments?  In other words, the history of humanity proved this to be false.  Groups of people have agreed to be the most wicked and violent killers in the history of the world.  If fact, it was even an angry mop that voted to kill Jesus – an innocent man.  

If life has no meaning, than no one can determine morality and the majority is just a group of people that have no framework or standard to determine morality. Without a moral standard defined outside of humanity, humanity is destine to fail, so the only way for humanity to survive is by God to give us his standard – which is exactly what he did in giving us the bible.

Wow did Frank do an excellent job clearly communicating the most convincing evidence that could not be refuted that God must exist.  The logical result is that the claims of Jesus are also true, Jesus came to give his life for our redemption and save all who believe in him.  

Here is the full debate:

 

 

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